Ambassador of Armenia to Albania during his working visit to Tirana gave an interview to the Public Radio and Television of Albania

08 June, 2022

Reporter. We are starting our main edition with a special guest, his excellency Tigran Mkrtchyan, Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary of the Republic of Armenia. Welcome to Albania and to the public television. You are coming to the country for the very first time. How are the relations between our two countries considering the official government in Yerevan?

Ambassador Mkrtchyan: Thank you very much for the invitation. It's a big honor for me to be the Ambassador of Armenia in Albania. You are right. It's the first time I am arriving here and the very first impressions from my very first day in Albania are extremely positive. I find not only the weather very warm, but also the people are very warm. The relations between Armenia and Albania have huge room for improvement, to put it diplomatically.

Even though diplomatic relations were established in 1993, the embassy from Athens has been covering Albania but the regularity and the intensity of the relations have not been strong enough, due to several technical, mainly technical difficulties or issues that have not supported the intensification of the relations.

For example, I will be handling the credentials tomorrow to the president [of Albania] and the recall of the ambassador of Armenia who went back in 2016. That is to say, for six years we did not have an ambassador, there was no ambassadorial coverage for Albania, although the embassy in Athens was responsible for Albania. But I should also add some positive things, such as international cooperation, especially on a multilateral level.

So Albania and Armenia have been mutually supporting each other in international organizations such as the United Nations or the Council of Europe. Albania is one of the countries which also joined and supported Armenia in its authorship of the UN resolutions on the prevention of genocide in the past, for example. So these are positive signals, these are positive steps on which we need to build on and further enrich our relations.

So, you know, I find myself in a position where we need to work in every single direction in terms of interstate cooperation, in every single direction. And since my capacity in the past as ambassador, I was covering three countries also in the past Baltic states, I have this experience, so I'm going to use that experience to be actively engaged in Albania and the progress of the relations.

Reporter: It is an honor for us for you to be here. Armenia is one of the countries with the oldest and most extraordinary institutions in our continent but you gained your independence in 1991. How has Armenia changed since then?

Ambassador Mkrtchyan: Thank you for the question. Since 1991 Armenia has changed immensely. You're right to note that Armenia is a country with old, ancient traditions but in a way a young republic.

So in our state-building since 1991, in those three decades of the post-Soviet period, we have been often looking back at our rich history, at our statehood periods you know dating back to three thousand years, but naturally, the nature of everything including politics has dramatically changed in the 20th century and we have to take into account the modern realities including also the power projection that Armenia has with its limited resources аnd yet with huge and immense diaspora communities worldwide. Armenia has been moving in the direction of democratization, something that has been the route for Albania as well.

The road to reaching where we are now has been very tough, it has not been smooth, but I hope that we have achieved, as of now I can say that we have achieved much in terms of liberalization of the economy, in terms of the media freedom, in terms of extra freedom of expression and in general - the fundamental freedoms that are the basis of a democratic society. Of course, I should also mention the fight against corruption as well.

So right now when you take all the statistics and indexes or ratings that are given by international institutions, Armenia has progressed a lot, especially over the past two-three years․ But we have not, naturally, we have not achieved where we would have liked ideally to be and this progress, this process of reforms and further democratization should be continued.

Also, I should underline this is extremely important that after the war in Nagorno-Karabakh in 2020 - the 44-days-war, there is a feeling of shock in the Armenian society and we need to overcome this shock. But I should say that in its 3000 years of history Armenians have sometimes, there have been such shocks in our history and we have always overcome with dignity.

Reporter. Therefore Mr. Ambassador, do you think that your community in Albania is a meeting point?

Ambassador Mkrtchyan: Naturally the Armenian community in Albania is relatively small compared to other places that I have worked in, and also you know compared to the community in Greece which is huge. But the size is not always a sign of quality, sometimes small communities or small organizations can be extremely effective and of high quality.

And this is the case with Albanian Armenians, where we have around 30-40 families that is to say about 150-200 people, a few generations of Armenians who have been here for a couple of hundred years, maybe a hundred, hundred fifty years. Some of them came from Greece, and some of them came from Italy or other parts of Europe, including Yugoslavia. But they became a vibrant community or each one of them everybody of them is established in their own specializations. Something, that as a person, as an ambassador I feel proud about and it is a reference point in terms of further building our relations with Albania.

Reporter. Is there any evidence of Albanian language or history in you?

Ambassador Mkrtchyan: Well, actually there is a scholar in the Armenian community here in Albania who is doing very thorough research to find out common features between Armenians and Albanians. Moreover, there are about 450 words that have a common origin between Albanian and Armenian languages.

Armenians have been widespread, this is well very well known history that we have been travelers all around the world and they especially in the ancient period there has been much presence of Armenians, especially of aristocratic elites in Greek or Roman courts or in Greek or Roman establishments and since Albania was within that sphere of influence including also in the Byzantine as well as Ottoman periods, I would not exclude that Armenians often visited here.

Since Armenians were a very active part in those periods they were very active, actively involved especially in the Byzantine empire in the management of the empire as well. So Armenians were actually quite active in this period.

Reporter: Armenia was very focused, especially on the conflict with Azerbaijan over the Nagorno-Karabakh territory. What is the current situation in the region?

Ambassador Mkrtchyan: I would like to make a small correction because it's sometimes used that it's a conflict between Armenia and Azerbaijan over Nagorno-Karabakh. This is what usually the Azeris are presenting because when we are talking about the conflict being "over a territory", that means that it's a territorial conflict. The reality is that it's not a territorial conflict, it's a conflict about the rights of the Armenians to live the way they like in the territory which has been theirs for several centuries, for thousands of years. So the situation right now is not very good, I don't have many good things to talk about this conflict right now.

So after the war, Azerbaijan has tried to capitalize on its victory which it gained by the support of Turkey, but we believe that any conflict especially such conflicts need a fair, just solution where there are no absolute winners and absolute losers, where there аre not humiliators and humiliated ones.

After the conflict, Azerbaijan firstly resisted using the term Nagorno-Karabakh region. They are saying, the Azeri leader is saying, that there is no region called Nagorno-Karabakh for example. Additionally, the Azeri leadership also is saying there is no Nagorno-Karabakh conflict, the conflict is solved, and it's in the past. This is what they say.

Additionally and the third point is that they're saying that the internationally mandated format called OSCE Minsk Group Co-Chairmanship, this format consisting of America (United States), France, and Russia, they're saying that this format does not exist anymore, it's a thing of the past.

But the reality is that the Nagorno-Karabakh region exists, there are Armenians who live there and there are Russian peacekeepers located there which came there by the agreement signed between the Azerbaijani president, Armenian prime minister, and Russian president, so Azeris gave agreement to having the Russian peacekeepers in Nagorno-Karabakh and in that agreement, there is the term Nagorno-Karabakh.

So the region of Nagorno-Karabakh as such, the name of Nagorno-Karabakh is not up to Azeris to delete from history: it exists. Similarly, the conflict has not been solved yet. In 2020 there was a use of force, there was a violation of all the international principles and international law to impose a solution by the use of force, but the conflict as such has not been resolved because the root cause of the conflict is about the status of Nagorno-Karabakh and this has not been solved yet. And this is the opinion of not only ours, not only Armenia but the international community is of that opinion that the conflict has not been solved and it needs to be solved. And it's not accidental that in the very last statement of the president of the Council of Europe Charles Michel, he mentioned through his spokesperson, it was mentioned that the root causes of the conflict of Karabakh need to be addressed.

Since the signature of the November 9th agreement 2020 until now what we are seeing is continuous provocations in Karabakh as well as on the borders with Armenia. Violation of the November 9th agreement has been constant and continues, Azeri forces have even occupied several areas on the border area of Armenia, proper Armenian territories, and several Armenian prisoners of war are still held in Baku and they are not returned despite the calls of the international community.

And Azerbaijani leadership is glorifying those who have taken part in war crimes during the war and the anti-Armenian rhetoric is at a peak. So these are all extremely worrying signs because Azerbaijan is talking about Armenians living within Azerbaijan but the rhetoric and the behavior of the Azeris leaves no doubt that Armenians will be fully ethnically cleansed if they are under if Nagorno-Karabakh is under Azeri authority.

I should here underline something very important - this is the interim measures that were taken by the International Court of Justice in the Hague, the UN court in 2021 December. So three main points are underlined in this interim measure.

One is about the racist and anti-Armenian rhetoric coming from state bodies, from the government of Azerbaijan. So the court is calling on Azeri leadership to stop this as soon as possible. This is not only racist but it's a dehumanization, anti-Armenian. So glorifying murders of Armenians, so it's everything anti-Armenian, it should be stopped.

The second point the international court of justice is calling on the Azeri government to take care of the protection of Armenian cultural heritage which is under the Azeri control, because before the war, during the war as well as after the war there have been several cases of vandalization of Armenian cultural heritage in Azerbaijan.

And the third point of the court was, it was calling for humane treatment of the prisoners of war who are held in Azerbaijan. On all these three points Azerbaijan has continuously violated the proposals or orders of the international court of justice leaving no doubt that Nagorno-Karabakh under Azeri control means Karabakh without Armenians, it means ethnic cleansing, it means genocide. You know this story very well from the experience in Kosovo, so in order not to have what could be in Kosovo had the international community not reacted we need more active engagement in Nagorno-Karabakh.

Reporter: Mr. Ambassador, how could the relations between Turkey and Armenia be remedied if any?

Ambassador Mkrtchyan: Well, the Armenian-Turkish relations have been historically quite difficult. Since independence in 1991, there were plans, there were mutual aspirations to establish diplomatic relations between Armenia and Turkey, but these relations were not established and the borders were not fully opened because of the war in Nagorno-Karabakh. Turkey conditioned the normalization of Armenian Turkish relations and opening of borders with Armenia upon the solution of the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict. So in the early 1990s, this attempt to normalize relations failed.

The next active stage or attempt to normalize relations started in 2007, 2008, and 2009, and this period was called "football diplomacy". It started on the assumption that we are moving forward with normalizing relations without preconditions but eventually, Turkey backtracked from this. Relations did not move forward even though there were protocols signed they were not sent to parliaments for ratification. Right now is that we are witnessing the third big attempt to normalize relations between Armenia and Turkey.

Turkey and Armenia have appointed special envoys for normalizing relations. Turkey has appointed a senior experienced diplomat and Armenia has appointed its deputy speaker of the parliament who also has diplomatic experience as he was deputy minister of foreign affairs, and of course, the process is under the supervision or under the guardianship of the foreign affairs ministers.

The envoys have met already a few times in Moscow, in Vienna, the foreign ministers met in Antalya, also there are planned meetings in Armenia and Turkey, I mean in the near future hopefully. All of these meetings are taking place under the condition that the process of normalization is going ahead without preconditions again. It is too early to make any conclusions but let's live and see how it will progress.

Reporter։ What about the peace process with Azerbaijan? How is that going?

Ambassador Mkrtchyan: With Azerbaijan, well you mentioned earlier, we talked about Nagorno-Karabakh but there is also, yes you're right, the process of normalization of relations with Azerbaijan. These are two processes but they are in a way interrelated because your question now relates to the recent talks on border delimitations, the delimitation issue on which deputy prime ministers are involved in a special committee with the participation of the Russian side.

This also includes the possibility of future opening of all transport routes in the region including railways and also motorways as well. On this issue, there is a mutual understanding that this should progress, but Azerbaijan has recently, I mean not recently, but over the past several months it has been talking about the so-called corridor, corridor opening a route for Azerbaijan from Western Azerbaijan over Armenia to Nakhijevan exclave.

They are calling it "Zangezur corridor", Azerbaijani leader is calling it Zangezur corridor, but the Armenian side has repeatedly said that we are not moving forward with the understanding of a corridor. We are talking about the opening of railways, motorways, and all communication routes. The idea of the so-called corridor is an idea about a right of extraterritoriality, and what the Azeri leadership is presenting means that it wants to, it wishes to cut Armenia from its southern border with Iran. The Armenian Foreign Ministry has several times underlined that and the Armenian leadership generally has several times underlined that this is an unacceptable logic. But of course, all of this is moving forward in the context of the Nagorno-Karabakh settlement issue, and it's hard to dissect one issue or divide one issue from the other.

Reporter: Mr. Ambassador, your country has good relations with Russia and the West and other countries. What is your government's stance on the war? How has the Russian invasion impacted the Armenian economy?

Ambassador Mkrtchyan: Well, on the situation of Ukraine - Armenia is trying to abstain from supporting this or that side. Armenia is supporting a peaceful solution to this crisis. Because we have, I should say that this is extremely important to understand there are more than 500.000 Armenians in Ukraine. And they are involved in both sides of the conflict and they are taking part in both sides against each other. So for us it's a very bloody conflict because Armenian blood is right now spilling on the soil of Ukraine.

Reporter: Unluckily for both sides …

Ambassador Mkrtchyan: Yes, therefore we are abstaining to support any of the sides and trying to… We are for a solution that would be mutually acceptable for the Russians and Ukrainians.

On the other hand, relating to your question on the economy, of course, it is impacting negatively, it's impacting negativity for everybody. I don't know anyone who is, I mean there could be some countries that might try to benefit but I don't know anyone who is happy about this situation, because both Ukraine, as well as especially Russia, are big trade partners for Armenia and both of their economies are sinking right now basically. This is impacting everything in Armenia, on economic life in Armenia and it's going to have a longer-term impact given also that Russia is falling under sanctions.

Reporter: What are the main economic resources of your country?

Ambassador Mkrtchyan: Of course, there are several resources that I should mention. One is the very obvious one which is the agricultural nature of Armenia. So Armenia is a big exporter of agricultural products and not only raw products but also products that are processed. Some of the very best fruit, for example, the very best apricot for me in the world is in Armenia. In addition to the agricultural products of course next comes the scientific development of Armenia and Armenia being an exporter of information technologies.

For example here in Tirana, we have TUMO Centre, the TUMO school which is a concept, an Armenian school, it's an IT school. So in Tirana the school which is now located in the new stadium's precincts, soon it will be removed to another special location.

Right now there are now more than 1000 students who are registered in Tumo Tirana. So, for example, this idea of a TUMO center has been exported to various cities including Paris, Berlin, Kiev, Lebanon, and Lyon recently, also in the United States.

But in general, I brought one example but similar to TUMO there are some other IT technologies that are presenting, projecting Armenia as a country that is capable of introducing something or giving something to the world in which it is interesting.

When I spoke about agriculture I should specifically underline also the alcoholic drinks because sometimes this is divided from traditional agricultural fields. So the Armenian brandy, the Armenian cognac, it's one of the best in the world and it is exported worldwide. The Armenian wine industry has taken up and has progressed immensely over the last two decades and some of the Armenian wine is included in the best catalogs of the world.

The third aspect of what Armenia can how Armenia can present itself; Armenia or the potential of Armenia is the of course the Armenian diaspora which is not of course something that Armenia can control but which is something that is providing Armenia, which can provide a very strong basis for Armenia to act worldwide. What is needed in this I should add is effective cooperation with Armenian diaspora organizations and Armenian diaspora groups.

Reporter: Mr. Ambassador, you mentioned some points of cooperation with Albania but I would like to ask you about other fields where you could increase cooperation with Albania.

Ambassador Mkrtchyan: I should tell you that there are so many, I mean in all fields we need cooperation. In agriculture, there is a lot that we can mutually offer. In this sphere of education, I believe both educational centers and institutions would be interested in cooperation.

So I spoke about TUMO Tirana. There are some other such IT centers that can be beneficial also for both sides to exchange which falls under scientific-educational cooperation.

And of course, politically we need to re-engage each other, cooperation needs to get more active. We need to form the legal basis of our relations through agreements, interstate agreements.

I hope by the end of my term as Ambassador I will have some news on all of those accounts.

Reporter: Mr. Ambassador, it was a great pleasure to have you on your first visit and an interview here and we wish you great work in the years you have ahead of you.

Ambassador Mkrtchyan: I'm very thankful to you and also in a way, it's historic because as I understand, I was just told that is the first time an Armenian ambassador is coming to speak on the public TV of Albania. This is historic and it's very important and it's a big honor for me personally. Thank you very much.

Reporter: Thank you.

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